when someone callous a name, you are not scarred. >> bob: they used to -- >> greg: you're insulted. >> kimberly: that happened to my friend. hawkeye. dabs that helped his ego. didn't hurt him. >> greg: it's not nice to call them names but you're not scarred. save that for something bad. >> kimberly: that is it for us "the five." thank you for watching. see you tomorrow if you dare. ♪ ♪ >> bret: they are talking in private but still feuding in public. the president and the speaker walking together toward the fiscal cliff. so now what? this is "special report." good evening. i'm bret baier. if there is any progress made on back away from the fiscal

cliff you would have a hard time knowing it from today's events. both sides essentially say they are waiting for other on more details on how to balance higher taxes for rich with spending cuts. in a moment with put karl rove and joe trippi in the negotiating room. but first we have a report or # 2 days, or as we will explain later, less to go. >> president obama back on the road 24. hours after the hush-hush meeting with john boehner about the fiscal cliff. insiders in both parties say the first face-to-face solo meeting in over a year is a sign in private they are making progress but in public the president is not budging. >> i'm in the going to compromise on that principle because i won't have a situation where the wealthiest among us including folks like

me keep the tax breaks and we ask the students to pay higher student loans. >> he decided to fire up the labor union base. about a republican pushbe for right to work laws in the state. >> what we shouldn't do, what we shouldn't doing is trying to take away your right to bargain for better wages at work. >> the employees cheered when the president took aim at the republican governor and legislature. >> we are talking about giving you the right to work for less money. >> the president called if union dispute and the fiscal cliff manufacturered crisis as he sounded a pessimistic tone about the possibility of another recession. >> people will spend nearly $200 billion less than they otherwise would spend. consumer spend willing go down. that means you have to let the customers, businesses get fewer profits.

they hire fewer workers and it's a downward spiral. >> some republicans are more hopeful of a deal andialing the party to give the president tax hike hikes in exchange for leverage on entitlement cut. >> the focus shifts to entitlement. maybe it puts us in a place where we can do something that saved the nation. >> other key republicans insist negotiators are far from a deal. the president won't take on his party about spending. >> he's afraid to go to a progressive meeting and say if we don't adjust retirement, they will go bankrupt. >> we are told he spoke by phone with reid but no contact with boehner. >> bret: stocks were up. dow finished ahead 15. s&p 500 was up half a point. the nasdaq gained nine.

talk about the implication of the looming fiscalcally. karl rove is former top advisor to george w. bush and joe trippi veteran democratic strategy. we thought it worked with the electoral map and fiscal cliff, get them a room and try to it. welcome back. >> good to be back. >> bret: a different channelchallenge. we talked about taxes. let's start there. the compromise. how do you get the compromise. joe, start with you. >> the president is asking for $1.6 trillion in revenue. there is no way, the top rate of 39%. there is i think there will be a rate increase. there is no way the democrats are going to go for less than a rate increase. 37% might be a good place where it seems to be possibility for compromise.

the president has to give and go to thenate bill for 20% tax and gain and dividends. the next place and big one is how you deal with deductions then, reforming that. my idea is capping all of them at 28%. let the deductions stay the same. take deductions but you can't lower tax rate below 28%. no matter how many you take. decent idea. top tier. democrats might go for it. >> this isn't an attempt to get more revenue. if you raise top rates back to where they were under clinton you can get $462 billion. if you do what joe suggested top rates you can only deduct 28 cents of each dollar that

you have for charity you have $1 trillion tax increase on the top two brackets. more than half of the tax rate -- they file on the individual of the top brackets. should we be doing this? should we have $1 trillion of the new taxes. care tri marginal tax rate up to 40%. plus what the additional taxes. $1 trillion that are in new taxes on obamacare. most of them on the wealthy. plus, then, hit them on the deduction side. they will be paying top marginal rate of 40%. effective rate that is four or five or six rate ace head. >> bret: make believe you want to get to compromise. there is an easy way to get there. the president said i need $800 billion at revenue, there is a way to get there. let us not discriminate --

let's go simpson-bowles. let's let everybody decide how much they want to use for whatever deduction. maybe you want to use for education. maybe you want to use it for your home. maybe you need it for healthcare. let's cap it. itemize deductions at a certain amount. if you cap at $25,000, you can lower all tax rates 20%. plus kill the alternative minimum tax forever and still have $1.3 trillion in revenue. if you do it at $50,000, cap. it gives you $800 billion. >> i like this idea when i first heard it but there are problems and intended consequences. for instance, you wipe out charities. charitable giving changed radically but that cap at $25,000. that is why i like the idea just you can keep giving to charitable or anything else but lowering the rate -- you can't lower it lower than the 28 cents a dollar that karl talked about. >> bret: all right. the 37%, not 39.6, but raising

the top tier to 37% is that going to fly? and is the republican caucus in the house? >> it's hard to get the republican caucus to go for rates. they offered revenue. okay, fine. you won the election. give you $800 billion but find it in a way with less of an impact. >> despite what corker and coburn -- they're senator, not house republicans. >> there is a difference between house and senate on this. you have rand paul saying give the president the tax rate and let him live with consequences. the house republicans will try to find a way to give him the money he wants. $800 billion. i don't think this is serious when the president walked in. >> bret: that is not going to sell on the democratic side. anything that doesn't raise rates. >> doesn't raise rates won't happen. >> bret: turn to spending. we talked about taxes, we have not talked about the spending. where is the spending that the republicans compromise wise think they need to get to? >> look. let's be clear about this.

the republicans view this as ap. if you take a look at outlays, in 2008, when we went in the economic difficulty; fy-08 there were $2.9 trillion in outlays. today it's $3.8 trillion in fy-13. revenues $2.5 in 2008. they're 2.9 today. back to re-knew we had before. nearly $400 billion more in re-knew bus we are, you know, nearly $900 billion more in spending. that is the trajectory we're on. so the republicans are emphasizing the savings. they propose $600 billion in medicare and other health savings. but they have to be fundamental reforms. we can't simply take the current system going broke and spend less. we have to find the fundamental reforms to allow to us save money. >> bret: democrats don't want to touch or haven't talked about it. what about means testing for the top tier? raising ages. it doesn't seem to factor in yet. what about the means testing

for the upper -- >> i think that the president, democrats will compromise. will, i think will look at doing means testing. that is a real possibility if they can get the rates. in other words, if it is part of a bargain to get the rate to 37 or up there, and we mean test -- parties aren't that far apart on the mandatory cuts. republicans are offering $300 billion. democrats are offering $250 billion. i think we can close the gap there. i think they can close on the means testing. i think cpi, as part of a bargain, revising the -- >> bret: social security. >> revising the consumer price index could be on the table if, if we get the higher rates. this is part of trying to reach the compromise we are talking about. the one i they is really not going to happen or very tough would be raising the age to 67. >> bret: even though it's for people under 50? >> part of the reason if you

delay it to throughout when it would go on effect when people under 50 reach 67, you don't save a lot. you just delay the hit that is going to happen. you don't save a lot. in the end, you are shifting costs. those people would have to be on obamacare or some other healthcare, getting healthcare from some place in the gap between 65 and 67. it's not clear that that is -- to democrats it's not clear that that is a very efficient way of addressing the problem. i don't think they will do it. >> bret: all right, guys. i mean, we started with let's solve this problem on the compromise side. we haven't heard the compromise. >> there are a couple of things that i think there is means testing that theteams can accept it. look, the change in how we calculate the taxes and benefits using a different measure of inflation. we have could probably get that passed. but if it does get passed it's $200 billion. there is a big gap between the sides. the republicans have offered health savings and other mandatory savings. and change cpi.

that is $1.1 trillion in savings on the mandatory side. the white house is offering $600 billion. on the discretionary side republicans are offering $300 billion over ten years. white house is offering $1 $1.7 billion. but they're illusionnary. let's assume we are going to be fighting in afghanistan and iraq for the next decade and then assume we're not. oh, we saved basically a $1.8 trillion. between the cost we're never going to spend anyway. >> it's interest that you save, that you don't fit pay on the thing we have agreed to. there is a lot of agreement. if you get to 37, if you can, to get there you can -- >> bret: he says you can't get to 37. you can't say it. >> that is the problem with the three of us talking about it. i don't have to go back to maxine waters and democrats in the house. and karl doesn't have to go back to some of the members of the house that were reject the

rate increase. that is the problem. >> at the end of the day, to get a deal, president obama has to be able to strengthen, ironically enough his partner in this. >> bret: i had high hopes for solving this, in this ten-minute segment. >> leave it to us. [ laughter ] >> he doesn't have to go talk to maxine waters. i don't need to talk to congressman abosh. >> bret: we'll do it again. thank you very much. brit brit hume brings his fiscal cliff analysis to table later. up next, rebels say syria's government is already using chemical weapons.

i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service.

because helps you keep doing what you love. no wonder it's america's #1 selling pain reliever.

you took action, you took advil®. and we thank you. prego?! but i've bought ragu for years. [ thinking ] wonder what other questionable choices i've made? i choose date number 2! whooo! [ sigh of relief ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. >> bret: activist in syria say rebels captured parts of another large army base in the north. that tightens their grip on areas close to the turkish border. back in the u.s., the government is moving closer to making a decision about one faction in the opposition forces. there are increasing concerns about chemical weapons.

here is chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge. >> state department officials say they can't independently confirm reports including this video uploaded to the web by the opposition over the weekend that claims the syrian military used chemical weapons. the fire which allegedly produced toxic smoke began after a syrian jet unloaded the cargo over rebel health position. another video claims to show protected gear confiscated by the opposition. on sunday, the israeli ambassador to the u.s. responded to reports that the israeli have intelligence assets in syria to monitor the stock pile. >> syria has a very varied deep chemical weapons program. it's geographically disbursed as well. were the weapons to pass in wrong hands, hezbollah's hands for example, that would be a game changer if for us. >> more shoulder-fired missiles report itly surface in syria, the administration faces renewed questions over whether the u.s. facilitated or approved the movement of

weapons from libya to serbian rebels. >> we're providing nonlethal assistance. other countries are making other choices. >> after more than 40 suicide bombings in syria, including this attack at the military intelligence headquarters in damascus that killed 55 in may, the state department is expected to designate a syrian rebel group as a terrorist organization. we have had concerns that it's little more than a front for al-qaeda in iraq. who has moved some of the operations in to syria. >> fox news learned that the c.i.a. along with the other intelligence agencies working with the libyan militias to track down wmd after it was claimed that the libyan dictator program was not entirely shut down. the u.s. officials insist there is no quid pro quo which would include moving weapons to is syrian opposition. bret? >> bret: thank you. we'll follow that. u.s. navy seal is dead and american doctor held hostage is alive and free tonight. it's another story of special

operation courage and expertise. but imkate with the ultimate price. national security correspondent jennifer griffin is at the pentagon tonight. >> petty officer first class nicolas check was 28 years old. the recipient of a bronze star for valor. he grew up in a suburb of pittsburgh. early sunday he was airlifted with the rest of his squad rant from seal team six, the same unit that carried out the bin laden raid. he was not part of that mission. sunday's asipement was to save the life of joseph, a colorado springs doctor who had been kidnapped along with two other afghans working for the aid group morning star development at a rural clinic. they were returning back to kabul on the road east of the capital on wednesday. "the other two members had been release by the captors about 11 hours earlier, following hours of negotiations conducted over three days." according to a statement

released by the aid group. that's when the top u.s. commander in afghanistan ordered the rescue mission when it became clear that dr. joseph's life may be in danger from the hostage take takers. tragically we lost a special operators in the effort. president obama said in a statement sunday about petty officer check. he gave his life for his fellow americans. defense secretary leon panetta added they put the safety of another american ahead of their own. the family of dr. joseph issued a statement tonight extenting their condolences to the family of navy seal petty officer nicolas check. they said they could not be more grateful for his sacrifice. bret? >> bret: jennifer griffin at the pentagon. thank you. still ahead. getting hot under the collar over solar industry profits. first, assume the republicans and the democrats strike a fiscal cliff deal. what happens then? many of my patients still clean their dentures with toothpaste.

but they have to use special care in keeping the denture clean. dentures are very different to real teeth. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident is designed to clean dentures daily. its unique micro-clean formula kills 99.9% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains, cleaning in a better way than brushing with toothpaste. that's why i recommend using polident. [ male announcer ] polident. cleaner, fresher, brighter every day.

neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself.

>> bret: we had 22 days before the economy goes over the so-called fiscal cliff. it's more than three weeks. that might seem like a lot of time. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel tells us tonight it really isn't. >> time is running out to keep the u.s. economy from going off the fiscal cliff in the new year. in fact, most experts believe a framework deal must be reac reached this week, most likely by thursday to give the house, ways and means and the senate finance committee several days to work the deal to legislative language. since it will be complex, likely to increase re-knew and cut entitlement spending if the lawmakers want a cost estimate with nonpartisan numbers from the congressional budget office, it would require several more days. the house g.o.p. requires that the bill be posted for parts of three days which means early next week in order for votes by the end of next week. veterans of past capital hill

battles note the whip operation convincing lawmakers to vote for the legislation they barely seen will be critical. >> likely that both sides, the president and the speaker are going to have to twist arms, they are going to have to call people. they are going, you know, do anything they can to push a deal over the line. >> with christmas eve in two weeks, the president, lawmakers want to be out of washington for the holidays, that further compresses the schedule. though in the senate, there is always the risk of a filibuster. >> look. the fact of the matter is that under the rules of the senate, any one senator can almost ground the place to a halt and often times they do. >> wild card in all of this is wall street. if investors lose confidence in walk getting this done or don't like to actual deal, that would exponentially turn up the pressure on all the key players. bret? >> thanks. let's get thoughts about what is going on in washington. senior political analyst brim hume joins us. good evening. welcome back. >> thank you. if you have announce of

compassion this christmas season, save it for john boehner and the house republicans. president obama is treating them as if he has them over a barrel headed if for fiscal cliff. and he does. this is not because mr. obama won re-election. after all, he won 51%. needed the greatest voter mobilization operation in history to do it. his leverage now stems from the law, which ends the bush tax rates on january 1, imposing new higher tax rate and a steep set of spending cuths that fall with special force on military. nobody wants these things but republicans, the low tax and strong defense party, want them least of all. not only that. but polls indicate that if these things come to pass, the public by large margin will blame the g.o.p. speaker boehner is trying to head this off bargaining with the president to keep tax rates they are now and raising revenue and closing tax loophole. mr. boehner want the president

to agree to serious reform of the entitlement benefit. mr. obama says he wants to higher tax re-knew and higher tax rates on the rich to boot. but he has offered nothing to speak of on entitlement. unreasonable? you bet! but on top of it, boehner is under attack from the right for being a weak negotiator. he is not a weak negotiator, he just has a weak hand. bret? >> bret: we're hearing all kind of proposals on capitol hill. one being talked about is from maine republican senator susan collins suggesting that maybe small businesses should be excepted from the tax hike. >> new higher tax rates. >> above $250,000. >> this would get at the republicans stated greatest worry about the higher tax rates on the so-called rich, because say republicans, that hits small business, big driver of employment. now the truth of the matter is obama administration said well, almost every small business in the country would

fall below that. they are not rich people and it doesn't count. that universe of the small businesses that the white house is talking about includes the smallest internet vendor. the truth is that number of businesses that pay at the higher rate are all the ones of any size. that would do any hiring. this would really get at the republican objection. it would be interesting to see if the white house is trogg agree to that. >> bret: political curveball. >> thanks. >> bret: new rule for some taxpayer funded government workers about tweeting and what you and your neighbors really think about the federal employees. grapevine is next.

>> bret: now some fresh pickings from the political "grey's anatomy." americans think public workers are better paid and more secure. and it turns out they're spot on. rasmussen report poll found that nearly two-third of private sector workers across the ideological spectrum believe that. and investors business daily notes since president obama took office, the federal government has hired an average of 101 new employees each and every day. cato institute report found that the average government worker makes $84,000 a year. that is 32,000 better than private sector workers. american battery maker a- a-123 system given stimulus money to help compete with the chinese companies is being sold to a chinese company.

pending approval from a u.s. bankruptcy judge. the group bid $257 million. the energy department here in the u.s. thinks for its $132 million investment, it should get a share of the proceeds. the company from china disagrees. decision could be months away. finally, it's like the seven-second delay on steroids. the state department is reportedly considering drastically rewriting its rules on social media novembering geinvolving two daye a tweet. "washington post" says the move may be in the wake of a scandal involving around a tell-all book but it's worth noting that the u.s. embassy in cairo egypt ran in trouble over tweeted apology over the anti-islam film that surfaced before the terror attack in benghazi, libya. there is a renewed battle going on tonight in california about renewable energy. specifically, solar power.

it's about profit versus loss. tax collectors versus the taxpayers. correspondent william la jeunesse lays it all out for us. >> there will be screwups and bankruptcies. indictments and deaths. but we are going to keep going. >> critics be damned says governor jerry brown who backed solar energy regardless of cost or consequence. >> we're opposed to that obviously because we will be the ones to live with it forever. >> riverside is home to more solar energy than anywhere else. but some call at it tax and rate payer ripoff. >> on the face it looks like a big deal. talk about the judge job and long-term benefit to county but we will carry the burden of having the facilities for decades to come. >> there isn't a single energy source in the united states that isn't subsidized right now. this is leveling the playing field for solar.

the truth is the cost for solar power is going consistently down. >> costs are dropping. but solar is still up to five time more expense i than conventional energy. those plans typically pay millions of local property taxes. solar pays next to nothing. when riverside tried to impose impact fee, big solar sued. >> the reason we decided to litigate the riverside county tax, it was illegal tax. >> average price of solar dropped 50% in the last few years. consumers still pay twice as much as natural gas. supporters say that is the price of a renewable energy future. others feel solar is not the cheap a tern a terntive they w- alternative they were sold. >> bret: thank you. egypt expanded military there. mohammed morsi issued decree to give troops the right to arrest civilians and joint responsibility the police ahead of saturday's constitutional referendum in egypt. north korea extended the launch window for a

controversial long range rocket. north korean officials say scientists found a technical deficiencies in the rocket first stage. north korea says it's putting up a satellite. the west believes that is covered a test long range missile technology. they are talking in private. but are we getting any closer to a deal to get off the so-called fiscal cliff? we will talk about it all with the fox all-stars when we return. [ woman ] we knew it was gonna be bad, but never like this.

the red cross was down here all the time.

[ man ] they've given us a lot of heart. in times of need, they're there. ♪ [ kerry ] my dad was watching his house burn. he turned around, and all of a sudden, therwas this guy standing there from the red cross. at a point where i had just lost everything, the idea that there was someone there... that's an amazing thing. ♪

♪ ♪ i've said i will work with republicans on a plan for economic growth, job creation and reducing our deficits. and they have had compromise between democrats and republicans. i understand, you know, people have a lot of different views. i'm willing to compromise a little bit. >> his proposal that he offered to boehner was literally a joke.

it's $50 billion stimulus package. it raised taxes by $1.6 trillion. it did nothing to save social security and medicare. >> bret: some of the back and forth today. the president back on the campaign trail back in michigan. if the private meeting with the house speaker was a sec ses, over the weekend -- success over the weekend the public back and forth is back where it was. bring in the panel. jonha goldberg, at large editor of national review online. juan williams, columnist with the hill. and syndicated columnist charles krauthammer. we often can read things from what is said in public. but we don't know a lot what about is said in private. we do know we are a step closer to this cliff. i'm pretty sick and people are sick of calling it a cliff. what do you think? >> yeah, first of all, i made the point the last time i was here. really weary of senators going out talking as if they are an integral voice in this conversation. this is still a conversation between boehner and obama.

i think brit hume was right earlier. boehner has a weak hand. the fact he has a weak hand is causing something close to a panic among the republican rank and file. >> bret: thank you for that. >> you're welcome. i think that you are seeing republicans freak out a little bit. little bit too prematurely. the ironic thing in some ways it might strengthen boehner's hand in negotiations. if he can go in and say they are going to fire me if i do what you are asking. i can't do that. one thing that barack obama understands is personal preservation and self-politic and it may make boehner a more credible negotiator in this. at the end to day, the republicans have to shoot the hostage and they will probably have to end up raising rates. >> bret: let's take a listen to one of the senators. senator corker over the weekendbe. as jonah mentioned he does front a vote in the house but he was speaking this weekend -- he does not have a

vote in house but he was speaking on "fox news sunday." >> once you give him the rate on the top 2% it's lesser tax increase than what he has been talking about. the focus then shifts to entitlements and maybe that puts us in a place where we actually can do something that really saves this nation. so that is, there is a growing body. it actually am beginning to believe that is the best route for to us take. to again, shift focus where it needs to be. which is on entitlements. >> bret: juan? >> well, there is no leverage. i think what you heard from bob corker is in fact now echoing through the hauls of congress. extending in to the house side. i think that, you know, a week ago we saw a lot of the kind of tea party committee chairs who would have really been at the forefront of the opposition move out by speaker boehner. i think what you see is the democratic congressional folks now having phone calls, robo call goes out, again, beating

up the republican on just this issue. i think that you see right now the fed is going to take action, likely action this week. that will continue to aggressive buying of long-term buying to make sure that the economy holds up. everything is leading toward this will be stabilize and the president has the upper hand. republicans just have to accept that. then move to the point that republicans have leverage. negotiation about the debt limit and use it to force him to engage in cust cutting. >> bret: let's hear from the other side. kevin mccarthy on "meet the press." >> the president says he wants tax rate because he wants re-knew. the republicans -- revenue. the republicans offered him the revenue and the president wants a balanced approach. 2-1/2 to three times as many spending cuts as to revenue. i don't think the republicans or americans want to raise any taxes just to continue the

spending in washington. >> republicans, there's increasingly some, while the corker message is getting in to the house, as juan suggests, there is also another message that is saying you know what? we lose always. why not lose fighting? and go over this cliff and fight when you had the leverage on the other side? charles? i'm hearing it more and more. whether it's per vase i or not. i don't know -- pervasive or not, i don't know. >> i'll start by saying i will avoid gastrointestinal analogies; particularly, colonic ones. it will stick to military ones. what you see among republicans now is a military rout. once if -- if the republicans had been able to hold the line and had unity in the house forget about the senate. but in the house on rates they might have held the line. or had they gone over the cliff it would be a position

next year to negotiate. i'm not sure again people assume obama is going over the cliff. ient to think he wants to start a second term with a catastrophic dropoff. but now we hear dissension, especially with the republicans negotiating amongst themselves on the air. the hand is weaker. boehner does not have the unity behind him. so it looks as if his path is going to be to concede on rat rates. but he has to get something if return. otherwise it's complete humiliation. i don't think it would pass the house. it those be on entitlement. it could be raising the age for medicare. it could be raising the retirement age on social security. it could be changing the cost of living from wage inflation price inflation. it could be all of the above. but if it isn't something, then i think the house will not go for it. >> remember, as i talk to carl and joe and we talk many times

we can talk and everybody can talk all day long. until you get 218 in the house. until you get numbers in the senate, you are nowhere. you have to put the caucus numbers together. >> the only way to possibly get the numbers in the house by hiking rates, let's say to 37, would be if you got something substantial and real on entitlements. if you are going to beat promise -- >> where is the signal and light at the end of the tunnel that is going to happen? no one said one thing -- >> obama side? >> yeah. >> if he holds out, i think it will not. nothing in the house will go over a cliff. if he holds out and offering nothing on intending and entitlement -- >> have you heard anything on entitlement? >> sure, what we talk about. changing the cost of living index and the other is bumping up age of the eligibility on

medicare, right? >> bret: cost of living index on social security? >> correct. >> most democrats say take it off the table. >> not just social security. look at the other government entitlement programs that people are beneficiaries from. let me suggest to charles that in fact if there is no vote on anything. the rates expire for everyone. republicans get blamed for bumping up taxes on everybody. >> bret: for how long? how long do they get blamed? >> how do i know? i'm telling you it damages the gp brand. >> obama inherits wrecked economy. >> it's not good for obama. if the second term begins with a legacy of economic fear he is in bad shape. he would have, you know, given in on the promise to protect the middle class. as i say, no vote, charles no, vote in the senate. >> that is why i think in the end obama has to come back at the 11th hour with something real. then he might get a deal. >> yeah.

this idea that obama wants to go over the cliff more than the republicans is true. but it's true he doesn't want to go over the cliff. it would be -- charles is right about this. it would poison his term, much the way the stimulus. i would mean hammer and tongs, partisan welfare for four years. not what he wants to do. he has an ambitious agenda. >> bret: we are talking probably under a week. that is about it. we just did the piece. because of legislative time needed to put something together before the end of the year. >> you are generous. >> next up. daring rescue in afghanistan leaves a navy seal dead. what is the state of that country next? [ male announcer ] red lobster's crabfest ends soon.

hurry in and try five succulent entrees, like ourender snow crab paired with savory garlic shrimp. just $12.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. and introducing 7 lunch choices for just $7.99.

the fundamental mission in afghanistan is establish afghanistan that can secure and gob itself and ensure that al-qaeda never again finds a safe haven within afghanistan from which to conduct a attacks on the united states or any other country. >> bret: defense secretary panetta at the end of last month talking about afghanistan. the mission on sunday was to save the life of this man, joseph, colorado springs doctor who had been kidnapped with two other afghans working for an ngo in afghanistan. the operation was dangerous. >> it was combined operation. in order to rescue this individual. capture or killed. and decided to start the operation. the assessment for us that there was imminent danger of

injury, or death to the individual. >> bret: petty officer first class nicolas cck, 28 years old, navy seal, member of seal team six was killed in that operation. our condolences to his family. we're back with the panel. we don't talk about afghanistan a lot, charles, but this mission, doctor is alive. he is well. free. that navy seal is dead tonight. >> the fact we don't talk about it and that we only do when we hear about a mission like this is what makes it doubly tragic. obviously, there is a terrible tragedy we lose a brave soldier who gave us life ultimately to save another american. which is sort of the tradition of the incredibly brave soldiers. the tragedy, double tragedy is why are they dieing? why are they overthere? we heard the secretary of defense say the mission is to establish, leigh behind a government to maintain itself.

that really isn't our mission. if it were our mission, obama would not have aboarded the surge in mid-september, which he did before the election. he would have kept it in the winter season. that were our mission he would have honored what the military commanders had asked for at the beginning of the surge, way to control the south and the east at the same time. in fact, he cut the number of troops and you could only do the south. we're never going to do the east. essentially, we're trying to hold on so we have a decent interval between our withdrawal and renewal of the civil war. if that is the case. if the mission is not a success, if obama had cut back and never speaks about this, this is never in consciousness of the nation there has never been war in our history where a president speaks less about and garners less support of behalf of real, on going operation where americans are dying. if that is our mission, which is minimal, getting out, why are the brave soldiers dying? >> bret: juan? >> i don't think it's the

democrats that are not talking about the war. go to republican convention. the nominee didn't talk about afghanistan. i think real issue here is what can the united states rationally expect to accomplish before leaving. we have been there ten years and now the white of our tails show as we run away. we have been there. it's cost us lives and cost us another life. you can see that a good american doctor was there trying to help in terms of the rural clinic. no shortal of american commitment to afghanistan. the problem is not only americans but people who come before tried to stay and we have seen results. there is no way that any foreign force is going to set the future of afghanistan. >> bret: so pull out. >> in fact, the american people if you look at the polls say now would be a good time. >> this reminds me of the end of the vietnam war. there were a lot of clever maneuvering by henry kissinger and at the end of the day it

was all basically a game to set up a plausible political climate for bugging out. that is where the obama administration is. whether it's good policy or is not a different conversation. but the talks about whether we'll pull out by 2014, to expedite things are not. these are all ways of basically saying we're done with this place. i don't know that you couldn't have more success if we contribute troops and resources the way people want to but there is not the political will in washington. >> bret: we won't stop talking about it. that is it for panel. stay tuned to see what makes this the most wonderful time of the year. begin. tomato, obviously. haha. there's more than that though, there's a kick to it. wahlalalalallala! smooth, but crisp. it's kind of like drinking a food that's a drink, or a drink that's a food, woooooh! .

[ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. share "not even close." share "you owe me..." share "just right." the share everything plan. sharable data across 10 devices

with unlimited talk and text. get a droid razr m by motorola for $49.99.

>> bret: final lie tonight, if you're parent or parent to be, you watched your child or one day will watch your child perform in a school play or a musical or a performance of some kind and you're proud, and you're there with your video camera or iphone and trying to hold still. thiin this holiday themed performae,